Did Oswald really beat his wife?

[Bill Chapman]

On top of Bill's fine post, in the end, about every human being has lied. It'd be difficult to find one who hasn't to be pinning Marina down on this. At least, I know I have.  The situation must have dumbfounded her as well.

None of the investigative bodies were in the business of calling people liars. They were tasked with finding the facts of the case, not trying the case in a court of law.

Marina has stated that she held back somewhat, and also admitted to telling (what turned out to be temporary) falsehoods.

[Tim Nickerson]

LEE HARVEY'S OLDEST

JUNE OSWALD

As America's obsession with her father goes on, a daughter tries to set the record straight.

By Steve Salerno

From The New York Times Magazine

April 30, 1995.

"But you have to understand that, aside from what role he had in the assassination, there's the issue of what role he had in our family. I know that in my life, Lee wasn't a good man. He wasn't much of a husband, he wasn't much of a father. He beat my mother. There were times when we didn't have milk to drink. We lived in poor housing or were taken in by others. So if I'm able to be detached or seem cold and unemotional about it, it's because I look at Lee in those terms."

[Tim Nickerson]

From the WC TESTIMONY OF GEORGE A. BOUHE:

Mr. BOUHE - Well, the only time I have been bringing that up is when I saw or heard that she had a black eye.
 Mr. LIEBELER - When did you see that?
 Mr. BOUHE - I would say within the first 2 weeks of September. One SaPersonay several of us arrived at their house.
 Mr. LIEBELER - At Oswald's house?
 Mr. BOUHE - Yes.
 Mr. LIEBELER - Where was that house located at that time?
 Mr. BOUHE - On Mercedes Street.
 Mr. LIEBELER - In Fort Worth?
 Mr. BOUHE - Yes; and she had a black eye. And not thinking about anything unfortunate, I said: "Well, did you run into a bathroom door?" Marina said, "Oh, no, he hit me."
 Mr. LIEBELER - Was Oswald there at that time?
 Mr. BOUHE - No.
 Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina tell you the details of her argument with Oswald?
 Mr. BOUHE - No; maybe the dinner wasn't ready or this wasn't or something.
 Mr. LIEBELER - She didn't tell you the details though at that time?
 Mr. BOUHE - No.
 Mr. LIEBELER - You said that you noticed another black eye. Did you see Marina with bruises on her at a time prior to this time in September?
Mr. BOUHE - Yes.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

From the WC TESTIMONY OF PAUL RODERICK GREGORY:

Mr. LIEBELER. Other than the fact that you noted, is there any other reason why you said you thought he had a bad temper?
Mr. GREGORY. I heard afterward, after the last time I saw him, I heard reports about him beating her, from the Dallas acquaintances.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never saw any evidence of that yourself?
Mr. GREGORY. No. One time I went over and she had a black eye. At this time I had no suspicion, that--but possibly I never asked her where did you get the black eye.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

From the WC Testimony Of George S. De Mohrenschildt

Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, George Bouhe, started telling me that "George, Lee is beating Marina. I saw her with a black eye and she was crying, and she tried to run away from the house. It is outrageous."
 And he was really appalled by the fact that it actually happened. And Jeanne and I said, let's go and see what is going on George Bouhe gave me their address, as far as I remember, there in Oak Cliff, because, I didn't move them---it was my daughter who moved them, I think.
 So we drove up there to that apartment, which was on the ground floor, and indeed Marina had a black eye. And so either my wife or I told Lee, "Listen, you cannot do things like this."
Mr. JENNER. Was he home at this time?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I think he was. Or maybe he wasn't. I just am not so sure. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But anyway, he appeared a little later.
Mr. JENNER. While you were still there, he appeared?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And when you entered that apartment on the first floor, you observed that she had a black eye?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. A black eye, and scratched face, and so on and so forth.
Mr. JENNER. Did you inquire about it?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What did she say?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She said, "He has been beating me." As if it was normal--not particularly appalled by this fact, but "He has been beating me", but she said "I fight him back also."
 So I said, "You cannot stand for that. You shouldn't let him beat you."
 And she said, "Well, I guess I should get away from him."
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

From the WC Testimony Of Jeanne De Mohrenschildt:

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, you see, he mistreated his wife physically. We saw her with a black eye once.
Mr. JENNER. And did you talk to him and to her about it?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; we did. I called him just like our own kids, and set them down, and I said, "Listen, you have to grow up, you cannot live like that. This is not a country that permits such things to happen. If you love each other, behave. If you cannot live with each other peacefully, without all this awful behavior, you should separate, and see, maybe you really don't love each other."
.....
Mr. JENNER. But why did you take Marina from the home?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Because he was beating her, and we didn't think it was right.

[Jerry Freeman]

Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, George Bouhe, started telling me that "George, Lee is beating Marina. I saw her with a black eye and she was crying, and she tried to run away from the house. It is outrageous."
 And he was really appalled by the fact that it actually happened. And Jeanne and I said, let's go and see what is going on George Bouhe gave me their address, as far as I remember, there in Oak Cliff, because, I didn't move them---it was my daughter who moved them, I think.
 So we drove up there to that apartment, which was on the ground floor, and indeed Marina had a black eye. And so either my wife or I told Lee, "Listen, you cannot do things like this."
Mr. JENNER. Was he home at this time?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I think he was. Or maybe he wasn't. I just am not so sure. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But anyway, he appeared a little later.

Does that make any sense?
They talked to someone that might not have been there... maybe he was there...not sure maybe not.
All in all the De Ms did not see Oswald beat Marina.

Also Mr Gregory testified that during that August-September period, Marina fell.
"She had cut her knee"
There was no statement that anyone was even concerned that she might be injured.
I think that was really crappy.
I believe the bruises was a result of the fall.

Mr. LIEBELER. What makes you say that?
Mr. GREGORY. Well, he would always, he never really didn't get mad, but he would--I never did figure out if he and Marina were arguing or just talking, but he would always shout, and I remember one evening that we went out, were going to the grocery store, and Marina had June in her arms and she stepped over and fell off the porch, and boy he got mad. You know, the baby fell on the ground. He really got mad. And. that was the only time I ever saw him real mad. I guess maybe he had reason to be mad, because Marina had dropped the child.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she fall out of her arms?
Mr. GREGORY. They both fell. She hurt her back. I thought she had.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he do?
Mr. GREGORY. He went over and picked up the baby.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then what did he say?
Mr. GREGORY. He got real mad, and then they ran in and they had the medical book written in Russian about baby care, and they went through it and I think the baby had a cut on its head, and Marina had a cut on her knee or something, and everything quieted down and we went out again, but it was a real hot moment.

A side note about some foreign brides [especially from the former Soviet Union]
It happens that a few of these marriages become a sham.
They will obtain their residence and then it's dosvidanya [goodbye]
They have learned from various sources to claim abuse as an out. 

 

[Steve Howsley]

A side note about some foreign brides [especially from the former Soviet Union]
It happens that a few of these marriages become a sham.
They will obtain their residence and then it's dosvidanya [goodbye]
They have learned from various sources to claim abuse as an out.

That is a text book example of an apologist for domestic violence. It might not be what you intended but that's a classic argument used by many wife beaters and their male supporters.

[Jerry Freeman]

That is a text book example of an apologist for domestic violence. It might not be what you intended but that's a classic argument used by many wife beaters and their male supporters.

Howsley .....is that your real name?
I think you've stalked me enough so cut the crap OK?
You wouldn't know the truth if it crawled out of your backside and kicked you in the head.

[Steve Howsley]

Howsley .....is that your real name?
I think you've stalked me enough so cut the crap OK?
You wouldn't know the truth if it crawled out of your backside and kicked you in the head.

Get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat. You created this thread so it's your baby but anyone including me has a right to post here. If any moderator considers my posts inappropriate then I guess I'll be hearing from them. So far I haven't heard a thing.

[Jerry Freeman]

.... anyone including me has a right to post here.

No one said you couldn't post here did they?
You can post. Did I say you couldn't post?
Stick to the subject and don't troll my every word.
I know exactly what I'm talking about.